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Using indicator constraint with two variables, Is there a solution to add special characters from software and how to do it. You are simply running out of atmosphere (i.e. I decided to look into that two intakes thing, and it turns out to make 11-12 m/s difference at 19,000m with my plane. My plane has turbojets and lots of fuel, but I am wondering what the optimal way to fly is. Your link has been automatically embedded. It is somewhat slow but very steady in flight. as a rule of thumb they all lose thrust at higher altitudes and at high velocities. Paste as plain text instead, lost birth certificate near berlin; ksp high altitude plane. Are you using Stock or NEAR/FAR? high-1 A Screenshot of Kerbal Space Program By: miklkit This is the current version. - Inside the atmosphere works the same way, except you need to be on an suborbital trajectory. Along with rockets, planes are one of KSP's most commonly referenced kinds of vessel, and are a vessel type . Remembering the FW TA152 and the U2 I put long wings on it and while its turn rate makes an airliner look like a fighter plane it is stable enough at 19000m. Running the 60U engine at about 40U seems to give me a good balance between reduced drag and air intake. You do get certain inertial and lever-arm effects, but those aren't really relevant to 'do I have enough lift to stay up'. But you'll need to unlock: Which cost 300 science. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers.. Visit Stack Exchange 101 kPa 1 atm Scale Height 5000 m Atmospheric Height 69 077.553 m 1.010-6 atm Minimum Temprature -40.19 C 232.96 K Maximum Temprature 20 C 293.15 K Oxygen Present Yes Contents 1 Kerbin 2 Topography 3 Kerbal Space Center 4 Atmosphere 4.1 The Troposphere 4.2 The Stratosphere 4.3 The Thermosphere 4.4 The Exosphere 5 The Kerbin System 5.1 The Mun Using Kolmogorov complexity to measure difficulty of problems? - but they were talking about having two intakes/engine. AoA and G-force moderation. probably the easiest place to land in the system as terminal velocity is survivable for a craft less kerman. I looked into the .cfg files and there are no special properties allocated to them. Content titles and body; Content titles only a screenshot of kerbal space program 2. by: lord bird. KSP doesn't care (much) about aspect ratio; the total lift is the same regardless of configuration. KSP Quick Guides: High Altitude Design and Flying - Stock v.23 Stoober AK 3.32K subscribers Subscribe 21K views 8 years ago This tutorial will cover designing and flying a plane that can soar. Thanks. You need to do it with what you've got. The Rapier, for example, works great as a high-altitude engine, precisely because it can go so fast. Of course, this thing has very limited range, speed and acceleration because of the extra weight. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. In the stock atmosphere, the benefits of moving faster outweigh almost everything else. Press J to jump to the feed. The easiest "default" way to build a plane in KSP-- i.e. But you'll need to unlock: High Altitude Flight Which cost 300 science. KSP - High Altitude Aircraft 16,702 views Jan 22, 2016 172 Dislike Share Save Phoenix Fleet Systems 222 subscribers Have a type of atmospheric craft you'd like to see me experiment with? So now to come to an end: from my experience I'd say for a medium sized aircraft it is best to fly between 12-13 km. The thrust of jets (turbo or otherwise) depends on airspeed: basics deliver more thrust at low speeds, while turbojets only really come into their own when you fly very fast (which also means flying very high, 20km and over). It is boosted into space by a launch vehicle, then re-enters Earth's atmosphere and lands as a spaceplane. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. with a thrust vectoring range of only 3 degrees. General Electric F-404 Afterburning Turbofan, Stratus-V Cylindrified Monopropellant Tank, Kerbodyne KR-2L+ "Rhino" Liquid Fuel Engine, LFB KR-1x2 "Twin-Boar" Liquid Fuel Engine, T-1 Toroidal Aerospike "Dart" Liquid Fuel Engine, S1 SRB-KD25k "Kickback" Solid Fuel Booster, IX-6315 "Dawn" Electric Propulsion System, AE-FF1 Airstream Protective Shell (1.25m), AE-FF3 Airstream Protective Shell (3.75m), PB-NUK Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator, https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?title=J-404_%22Panther%22_Afterburning_Turbofan&oldid=95515. If it's above the cross-hairs, you need a little less. You can spin around the whole world on just fumes. Or try using SRBs instead. All rights reserved. 2.) It flames out at 25,000. Make sure you've angled your wings up slightly so that you provide enough lift for a 0 angle of attack at top speed. This thread is quite old. What are the minimum altitudes for each warp level? Once I'm near or in the target area, I set the throttle to 0 and start the Swivel. How to tell which packages are held back due to phased updates. Paste as plain text instead, jet engine efficiency in this game is based on built in thrust curves. Your previous content has been restored. Since gravity is effectively lower, they don't need as much wing area to maintain altitude-- which, in turn, means less drag, which makes for more efficient flight. I don't have that other stuff yet. The X-37 is operated by the United States Space Force for orbital spaceflight missions intended to demonstrate reusable space technologies. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one. I should perhaps start trying out NEAR to get ready of 0.90, though. To get there, you're going to want to climb at the fastest rate you can manage to 18-20 km, at which point you should mostly level off and start accelerating horizontally. Basically there are two things that limit your maximum speed: thrust and speed of sound and with that your maximum altitude. Kerbal Space Program Jool Landing Youtube. Fighting oscillations. I checked the wiki before I wrote my question, it seems I overread this paragraph Something that I think has become less clear since someone updated the wiki. Your airspeed is mostly limited by terminal velocity; you can go much faster if you climb a little higher. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. So long as there's only one high-altitude measurement to take, you should be able to complete a whole set of 3-4 in one flight. Keep in mind that wheesley engine's performance decreases significantly as the altitude increases. This thread is quite old. This tutorial will cover designing and flying a plane that can soar at high altitudes! The U-2 is probably the highest altitude aircraft still flying. What altitude and speed should I go? I started by attaching two LV-909 rocket engines to a regular low-atmosphere plane: In this save, I don't have custom action groups yet, so I'm using the RCS control to toggle between jet and rocket modes. Knowing how to design these types of planes make jumping in to SSTO design very easy as there are only a few minor changes that need to be made.Music Credits:1st Song: \"Elephants\" - YouTube Audio Library2nd Song: \"Hot Heat\" - YouTube Audio Library3rd Song: \"Echoes\" - Kasbo - https://soundcloud.com/k-sboWhat game is this? air) that high up. The returns are diminishing so eventually you will hit a ceiling. One problem is i'm running stock on career mode and only have 30 part to spare, so large planes are out of the question. Using very light "engine rich" planes and "reverse swooping" (building velocity at 10km then gently curving up) you can temporarily get above 20km with Wheesely and Juno. All the information you could want to know about science, including the altitudes for each celestial body, and what altitudes a given experiment works on are available at: http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Science. As I understand, the OP wanted "the most efficient way to fly", and simply needed a bit of help in realizing that that is a hypersonic, high-altitude, high-performance aircraft which is a RAPIER and a little oxidizer away from being an SSTO spaceplane. Redoing the align environment with a specific formatting, Trying to understand how to get this basic Fourier Series. Thanks for the help! The more successful the flights, the more successful the space program is. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Be aware that heat buildup can gradually become a problem when the afterburners are used in sustained flight. Isn't that backwards snark? 2/3 (KSP 1.11.2) - YouTube I break out the Mk2 parts and Panther engines to build a better jet that can go higher and faster. Subscribe -. You will find that when you're flying around, will always be slightly below the crosshairs on the navball. To reach the initial low Earth orbit of the International Space Stationof 300 km (now 400 km), the delta-v is over six times higher, about 9.4 km/s. Any advices for building a vehicle for this task? Or you need to put a little bit of angle of incidence in your wings, which will reduce drag since you don't have to pitch the entire plane up, but will be stuck at a fixed angle meaning you'll have to pitch up or down anyway during certain phases of the flight that the plane isn't optimised for. In this chapter, you ll learn about the Space Plane Hangar, a building that forms part of the Kerbal . The stratospheric region, where temperature rises as altitude increases, spans the region between the altitudes of 10 km and 22 km. Why that? Privacy Policy. Welcome to the forums, ZDW. high-2 A Screenshot of Kerbal Space Program You get tons of thrust if you put it into "wet" mode, but you lose fuel efficiency. Ksp engine altitudes I've been trying my hand at some High altitude speedy planes for a while now, but can't seem to get a hang of the altitudes that each engine likes, I know kerbal isn't earth, so looking up the crushing altitude of say the sr71, doesn't seem to apply, but I was hoping that others experiences would help me. How can this new ban on drag possibly be considered constitutional? It is usually best for initial designs to be based on logic and real-world physics and then be prepared to experiment with non-logical alternatives for optimisation. Your engine burns the same amount of jetfuel per second regardless of how high or fast you are! Another approach, which I was managing with some success before I figured out jets, is to build a rocket and catapult yourself towards the measurement point. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Kerbal Space Program ( KSP) is a space flight simulation video game developed by Mexican developer Squad for Linux, OS X, Windows, PlayStation 4, PlayStation 5, Xbox Series X/S and Xbox One. Which makes this engine ideal for those missions which require doing many science activities above particular altitudes. (the engines will use very little at high altitude anyway). Your decreased flight time means you probably won't make it to your location. Dedicated to the growth and advancement of amateur rocket scientists! For comparison, the second most maneuverable engine is the CR-7 R.A.P.I.E.R. http://www.youtube.com/user/Cruzanak?sub_confirmation=1Quicklinks to topics in this videoJet Engine Concepts: 0:30Air Intakes: 1:13Flameouts: 2:22Control Surfaces: 5:08Flying Tips: 5:57This video will go over everything that you need to know about to design a capable plane that can fly in the thinnest of atmospheres. Yes, you can get into that range with the high end stuff (whiplash engines and ram or shock cone air intakes). The main body is a fuel tank with a Swivel engine at the end. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. Not only does it conk out at high altitudes, but also it conks out at high speeds, and you need to be able to go fast to fly up high. Clear editor. Or is it the same for all celestial bodies? Grichmann's answer has been the most reliable way I've found to complete these missions. Do plugins for Kerbal Space Program work on unix? I got this game so I could over-engineer rockets, so I mostly ignore the airplanes. Pasted as rich text. Thats my problem right now. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Due to the lower air pressure at higher altitudes its thrust output decreases accordingly. That will unlock: "Whiplash" Turbojet Which is capable of high altitude, high speed flight. Note that KSP planes get one substantial speed benefit that's much more pronounced than IRL aircraft, due to the freakishly small planet sizes: they're actually flying at a large fraction of orbital velocity. even stranger is that the surface is textured. Upload or insert images from URL. I followed a similar strategy. I've since shaved that down more but that was by going even higher and even faster). You can post now and register later. Note that you need to activate the afterburner ("Wet Mode") manually. Remember that you need to have intakes somewhere in line with the engine to function at that altitude. Most SSTO space planes would be able to accomplish this easily. Will post my results. Evidence. 3x06: I design a new, high altitude, jet to collect high. Also, jets eat fuel at pounds-per-minute -- if you cover twice as much ground in the same time, your plane will be more efficient. I didn't succeed with his design, though; I always ended up having somehow unstable airplanes. Once you're at that regime, you should be able to cover huge distances on tiny amounts of fuel. Pretty often, the tail "wiggled" and/or the plane became totally unstable when I fired the rocket boosters. Something that I think has become less clear since someone updated the wiki. What you should be concerned about is atmospheric drag, and that's minimized by high-altitude flight. I'm going to try adding a small solid fuel rocket engine toned down to get the initial height then dump it, as well as check into that high end gear mentioned. They will someday, but they don't now. I wasn't expecting so many excellent answers! Planes in Space. So I've created those two planes, both with weasley turbofan engine: This is your problem-- as folks have pointed out, it's not a high-altitude engine. This page was last edited on 22 December 2019, at 20:54. This means that the only thing that decides wheter your engines run efficient is determined by how much thrust they produce (opt. I find that a conservative amount is 2 RAM intakes and 2-4 radial intakes per turbojet. I was even able to do this with three pairs of Junos instead of the large jet engine pair (I don't have the technology level for that). You can post now and register later. Kerbal Space Program 2 . I don't have the numbers handy, but you can expect something like 400m/s at 15km. Chapter 4. So if you want to make a plane go as fast as possible, you want to minimise both angle of attack and angle of incidence necessary to sustain level flight at your target speed and altitude. And how many km can I expect to get per v (as calculated by Engineer redux Kerbin atmospheric stats, I know this is weird with planes)? How do I install mods for Kerbal Space Program 1.1? What are the units of measure used in Kerbal Space Program? Is it correct to use "the" before "materials used in making buildings are"? If that's all a case of Too Many Words, think of it this way: Suppose you just build a plane the "default" way and don't put any. Because when your engine has to take in air forcefully it automatically means there isn't enough surrounding your engine and that again means that air density and therefor air resistance must be pretty low too. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. To get higher with the low tech jet engines, you need rocket assist. As you found out, it basically konks out at 15km. Secondly don't think of engines working better at different altitudes, think of them working better with different air intake quantities. Don't worry about Isp. As long as the engine gets enough air it will work at proper efficiency. Also, while you mentioned the TJs most efficient altitude is ~ 5km (I'm not sure, but lets assume it's true), you need to realize that the drag you're getting at that altitude is going to wreck any efficiency gains. Display as a link instead, How to make a loop for linear actuator in Kerbal Space Program, Breaking Ground. *I use FAR these days, which basically means completely replacing every spaceplane and rocket you ever designed to account for its much more realistic aerodynamics. It's also worth noting that this engine has the widest thrust vectoring range of all of the jet engines, with a full 10-degree range in all directions. You can post now and register later. There are no requirements as far as size or power are concerned, as the AI Pilot is capable of flying pretty much anything - from tiny scout planes to oversized freight craft. Designing a High Altitude Jet | KSP: Making Space Home Mike Aben 24.8K subscribers Join Subscribe 85 Share 3.4K views 1 year ago Ep. Whiplash is the engine you would want to use on a plane meant to go 20km. FBW uses three controllers - pitch, roll and yaw. When added to a plane it allows tuning of the controls vs speed/altitude/G load/other factors. Build a plane or rocket for Kerbal high altitudes, We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup, Screenshot of the Week #85 [Submissions Closed - Vote Now!]. This causes the body of your plane to generate additional drag. In the game, players direct a nascent space program, staffed and crewed by green humanoid aliens known as "Kerbals". There is no such thing as "so high radar can not detect it", since radar can detect things in outer space. - Spamming airintakes didn't help. I don't have any exact numbers for you, but you can right-click an engine in flight and it will show both current and optimal airflow, which should hopefully let you work out the best altitude. Don't rely on the efficiency indicator! Clear editor. Rockets aren t the only way to get to space. For example, the RAPIER engine doesn't seem as the first choice as the "best" high altitude air-breathing engine but in long-distance and high-altitude challenges it is. (Actually, four ways: but balloons aren't in the stock game) Lifting surfaces are great but they lose effectiveness just as fast with altitude as drag falls. At sea level, it produces 120 kn thrust, but at 15 km altitude, it only produces 13.7 kn of thrust, barely enough to provide any thrust to climb higher, Long and narrow wing has less surface area to provide lift, and at higher altitude, the atmospher is so thin that the lift generated by long and narrow wings is insufficient for sustainable flight. That annoys me but I can't seem to get a design to make it work. : : . So if you replace the turbos with basic jets, you will have more thrust from the ground up, and your vessel will weigh slightly less. Sustained flight at over 20km requires at a minimum the Panther in Afterburning mode. Watch out for your SAS if you're running batteries without a jet for a long time. To avoid running out of fuel altogether, I have a second plane with small tanks (no oxidizer) attached directly to the jet engines, and the rockets attached behind the fuselage, which is entirely oxidized tanks. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. You can go above 20km with the J-404 Panther. 3x06: I design a new, high altitude, jet to collect high atmospheric science. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Make sure we're on the same page with terminology. KSP also tends to have very harsh induced drag if angle of attack gets too high. Be sure to have enough intakes (I think maximum efficiency in stock is 1 ramjet intake per ~2 tons of plane, though that is aesthetically ridiculous), and if you're still running short of intake air, you can dip down a bit to speed up and get to denser air. This works, but it's not optimal. First off as of .15.1 intakes don't do anything. Air Flow: Air Flow represents with how much force air passes the turbine (notice: different amounts of air at the same speed equals in different amounts of force!). Which is capable of high altitude, high speed flight. One of my planes is small and agile, and can easily enough glide to a safe landing even if the rockets consume all the fuel. But my guess is that these same general principles would probably apply to FAR, and that all that would change would be the numbers involved. Each stage of the rocket has a delta-v that depends on the stage fuel mass and the engine specific impulse. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Can't remember where I saw/read about it - Scott Manley maybe? More air is better. When you are surrounded by plenty of air there will of course be no need to suck in air artificially but the higher you get the less dense the air around you becomes and in order to make sure that your engines have enough oxygen to burn the fuel it needs to suck air in forcefully. - Insane lift to weight didn't help. I start with the normal jet engines (which takes almost the complete runway). Make sure you have lots of control surfaces because at very high in the atmosphere, there's not much air for the wings to control the craft with. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. If you've attached them to your fuselage with zero AoA, what that means is that when you fly, you're going to have to have the entire plane pitched slightly above in order to generate lift. Another problem is jet engines stealing fuel from the rockets' tanks - you may want to pump the fuel manually (requires an R&D centre upgrade) or add some pipes between them. Unfortunately I won't be able to test it today, but @SaintWacko's proposal sounds promising. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. This can be done with moar boosters or more calculated wing and body design, depending on the aero model you use. There's basically three ways to do that: lifting surfaces, thrust, and orbiting. All other versions are slower and lower and unstable in turns. Anyway thanks in advance. Mounting a time-limited rescue mission for kerbal inbound to Kerbin. I tried building a plane but can't climb higher than about 11,000m (I don't have many plane parts yet, though). Your link has been automatically embedded. There are two factors to that: how thick the air is, how fast the ship is going. It was meant for low altitude flight. In this case lots of fuel is the wrong approach, I can get more than half way around Kerbin on 2 cans of Jet Fuel and a turbojet if I glide most of it. principle. Basically I can hit a target altitude of 20,000m but can not maintain it. Is it suspicious or odd to stand by the gate of a GA airport watching the planes? Range with this method is pretty short due to drag. With some fins to keep you stable and careful aim, you can hit your desired location and altitude and will have 5-10 seconds to collect data before you hurtle past it and pull your chute. Powered by Invision Community. 1Altitude requirement 2Orbit 3Speed, range, and altitude 4Flight duration 5Flight profiles 5.1Ballistic missiles 5.2Tourist flights 5.3Scientific experiments 5.4Sub-orbital transportation 6Notable uncrewed sub-orbital spaceflights 7Crewed sub-orbital spaceflights 8Future of crewed sub-orbital spaceflight 9See also 10References Building a High Altitude Jet | Stream pt. Powered by Invision Community, Thanks, I'll go try to stuff a few extra turbojets and intakes on my plane, I was generally under the impression that basic jets were mostly deadweight on high-performance aircraft: [] at hypersonic velocities. Let me share what I know about jet engines, speed, and efficiency. My question is really about controllability. But maybe your patience? The Panther engine can hold 19,000 steady and oscillates around 20,000. Then I increase throttle until about 2/3 or even full, climbing with a high inclination (it can also go straight up). But. - "In Space High" means your craft is inside the given Sphere of Influence and above the "Space Border" altitude listed in the Celestial Body Multiplier Matrix. I have enough patience to do the slow flying, but is it horribly inefficient? Thanks, I'll go try to stuff a few extra turbojets and intakes on my plane Do you know how many intakes/turbojet are needed to run in the regime you described? rev2023.3.3.43278. Its an approximation missing someelements. Thrust means that slower-is-better no longer applies: now, slower means less drag but more gravity, so there's a tradeoff (which I'm not going to carefully calculate for you, because it's hard). If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. So, to correct " is below crosshairs", what you need to do is to add a little AoA to the wings. Strictly speaking this optimisation is unnecessary, but it can win you a bit of range. I only seem to be able to make planes that can fly a bit below that altitude and then temporary rise to it. As high and fast as you can go without engine flameout: preferably ~2000 m/s at 25-30 km (and yes, that's almost orbital velocity). It will be expensive and time consuming. That's just a guess, though-- perhaps someone more familiar with FAR could weigh in.). What are the altitudes for the various altitude record contracts? That's all true, but just read the OP: hypersonic appears to be completely out of the question. Thankyou all, I now reckon I have a much better understanding of the engines, hopefully that'll translate to better aircraft. It may work with stock too, I just don't know. Delta-V is the velocity change necessary to perform orbital maneuvers. Because of the exponential nature of the rocket equationthe orbital rocket needs to be considerably bigger. That will unlock: This lowers their effective "weight"-- for example, a craft flying at 1400 m/s on Kerbin is effectively flying as if gravity were only 2/3 of its actual value. You can do that by right-clicking the engine and clicking "Toggle Mode." I generally don't fuss with AoI unless I'm making a long range cruiser. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. I also added a parachute and decoupler since I find it too hard to correctly land this thing yet ;-) I managed to land in the water once, though. Let me. A jet engine from KSP 0.18 A jet engine is an air-breathing engine which uses onboard liquid fuel and combusts it with the oxygen drawn from the atmosphere. You can halve the drag by climbing a bit less than 3500m. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Thanks for asking this, I've been struggling with the same problem in career mode. At this point the plane plummets, but as it goes deeper into the atmosphere, it regains pitch authority, and at 10km it's enough to regain control and turn it around for a safe landing. Even better, burn a little more, and you can pop out of the atmosphere for a bit and avoid all that nasty drag stuff. Here's Mr. Manley using it in his tutorial: @Pvt.Grichmann: I think it's at specific locations on Kerbin, not just anywhere above 18km. The Kerbal Space Program subreddit. Did any DOS compatibility layers exist for any UNIX-like systems before DOS started to become outmoded? By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Display as a link instead, The most efficient way is, of course, to make a high altitude (or space) plane. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site.