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Schluter says that the Kerdi membrane and tile can be installed over standard gypsum wall board without any problems. Since the existing wall board will be removed, I'd prefer to go a little extra and install a water proof cement board type base so the tile has a solid substrate even if it were to get wet . We ended up sponging the Hardi and wetting and booking the Kerdi (a la wallpaper), and that made the installation go much smoother. In a perfect job, it will waterproof. Not to mention, its warrantied by Schluter, giving you the ultimate peace of mind. Yes, KERDI membrane will stick to cement board. As fiber cement board is similar to regular cement board, it makes sense to choose the one that is cheaper or more readily available. Kerdi's systems are fairly reputable. WATCH HERE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TRLd2HYhbU&list=PLO47JMsdYGrkxM_ZkOc3lMnsVhTqj80bB#justdoityourself #lovingit #p. This feature makes building the base structure much easier and more cost . Once this is done, continue the installation by following the directions for the particular Kerdi product being used. is the contractor creating a waterproof schluter-kerdi shower? Porcelain and ceramic tiles are stiff and hard materials, so if they are installed on an unlevel or bouncy surface they are highly susceptible to cracking. Also - use a good thinset. You provide the pitch during the tile set. craft paper or plastic is great if the inspector wants it but it is (should be) doing nothing for a tub surround that has HB/redgard/thinset/tile. Cement board and grout are not water proof, if there's Kerdi no moisture is ever going to be able to get behind it. With cement board as a substrate, the key is to ensure proper installation of the membrane. FRC board tends to be more moisture-resistant than gypsum board and is best suited for outdoor projects such as showers or tub surrounds. A successful tile installation largely depends on the substrate that the tile is attached to. Why is there a voltage on my HDMI and coaxial cables? Needless to say, the drywall turned to mush. We tried soaking the cement board and applying the kerdi in small sections. It is important to waterproof Hardie board to make it more water-resistant, as well as to protect the materials from the elements. Once all that is completed and the Aquadefense has dried, you can install your tile with a polymer modified mortar meeting the ANSI requirements of A118.4 or A118.11. ), Schluter SET, ALL-SET, FAST-SET or an unmodified thin-set mortar is recommended. Step 4: Place the Tile. The waterproof membrane isn't a substitute for the substrate. I look at ceramic tile as a lifetime-of the house-product, so I use the best material for the job.I prefer to use cement board as the substrate with the Kerdi on top. We don't expect people to master this and in fact I know maybe two guys in my area (live in big city) that could do this. True cement board (Durck, Wonderboard) is my first choice as a tile or Kerdi backer. Is it ok to fasten a shower surround to Schluter Kerdi curb? Here's how to get it right the first time, If you've got a steady hand, a few easy-to-find supplies and patience, you can install a tile backsplash in a kitchen or bathroom, Step 4 in swapping your tub for a sleek new shower: Pick your waterproofing materials and drain, and don't forget to test, Work with your contractors and installers to ensure a safe, stylish curb that keeps the water where it belongs, Get the benefits of a time-honored ritual without firing up the coals, thanks to easier-than-ever home steam systems, Landscape Architects & Landscape Designers, Outdoor Lighting & Audio/Visual Specialists, Out With the Old Tile: 8 Steps to Prep for Demolition, Convert Your Tub Space Into a Shower Waterproofing and Drainage, Steam Showers Bring a Beloved Spa Feature Home. Jun 21, 2017. Additionally, all seams should be sealed with Kerdi Fix and covered with fleece. Our thinset was more watery than the videos, but it still managed to dry out quickly, even in the time it takes to apply the small corners in our shampoo niche. Self-leveling underlayment has many of the same advantages as a dry-pack mortar bed but doesnt require as much skill to install. modified thin-set mortar is not recommended to set ceramic and stone tile, including large format tiles, over the KERDI membrane. Given the complexity, its easy to see why even experienced tile setters avoid dry-pack mortar and use backer board instead when they can. #4 You could be adding a good 1000 pounds to your install too. :/. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. It also features fleece webbing that allows for effective anchoring into thin-set mortar. And by 'booking the Kerdi' I mean we put it in the bathtub, sprayed it with the handshower, then booked it (just like wallpaper). The type of bonding mortar used to apply KERDI must be suitable for the substrate and must penetrate and engage the membrane fleece. It may take more than 1 beer:). When it comes to using thinset with Schluter products, the Schluter-Systems website recommends using unmodified thin-set mortars specifically designed for use with Schluter membranes. Step 3: Apply Thinset. Both Kerdi Board and cement board are designed to smooth out uneven spots on the installation surface, create an unbending layer that wont flex underfoot, and also provide a waterproof barrier. Building Panel: Price $ 119 00 $ 202 06 $ 279 00. How "tidy" does the kerdi band need to be? GoBoard is a kind of backer board because the main elements of a backer board are cement, silica, fiberglass, etc. Such membranes typically come in a brush or a roller form and can help create a durable barrier against water infiltration. One of the company says they are going to apply kerdi membrane on the drywall, then tiles onto the kerdi membrane, and as such as cement backboard would not be required. 1. Other mistakes I was making early on:-over working the thinset. Go with smaller bags or only mix half. ps, now that you don't need it anymore you can throw that useless cheap piece of crap magnesium float my way. With that said, lets take a look at the importance of choosing the right tile substrate, the options you have, and which tile underlayment material you should choose Kerdi Board or cement board? My idea is to block in and install the tub in the existing corner, erect the new wet wall, and use hardi-backer to shim the wall out over the tub flange, then apply kerdi over the whole thing.Does kerdi take offense at being installed over hardi? Since KERDI is impervious, it does not deprive the mortar of its moisture. The thickness of the tile is important, and should be known, but not because it changes the method of building. Why are physically impossible and logically impossible concepts considered separate in terms of probability? Shouldn't take too long, maybe an hour or so. The completed assembly takes the place of more traditional backer board when installed over 3/4-inch wood subfloors. Once its applied, the last step is to follow up the waterproof coating with a waterproof sealant. We apply the thinset the recommended trowel, can't remember what size off the top of my head, in small sections and by the time my husband hands my the piece of membrane the thinset is not skinned over but certainly dry. Manufactured by Schluter Systems, Kerdi Board is a multifunctional tile underlayment and construction panel, that can also be implemented for forming bonded waterproof assemblies with tile coverings. Additionally, the use of modified thinset with KERDI could lead to cracks and other issues down the line as the modified thinset can shrink and pull away from the KERDI membrane over time. And how do you keep too much water from interfering with the adhesion in the second scenario?Thanks!! The great thing about Kerdi Board is that it is lightweight and easier to maneuver. The colour is different. Install an Uncoupling Membrane Between Concrete and Tile. Hardie board is thirsty, but that's way too fast. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. That was not a fault of the Kerdi, or the installation. All it takes is the right preparation. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. Kerdi Board is suitable for a number of interior applications. I like to use a garden sprayer to keep the thirsty Kerdi wet. 120 sq feet including the floor. On top of that, fiber cement board is even more brittle than standard cement board, so you have to be extra careful to keep screws at least an inch from the edge to avoid breaking the board. Significantly more time and effort is required to ensure a quality bond when using a modified thinset adhesive with KERDI, and for this reason, it is usually not recommended. RedGard On Hardibacker Board. Hi David. Redgard is a similar product. Euler: A baby on his lap, a cat on his back thats how he wrote his immortal works (origin? The Schlter system tends to be more durable than a cement board, but it also depends on the particular application and the weather. You still use metal lath, but then mix bags of powder and pour the soupy mix onto the floor. Blocking should be constant across this area when openings are larger than your fist. . When it comes to installation, a Schlter system is typically easier to install than a cement board, and it also allows for more design freedom as it does not require a traditional waterproof layer. What's the difference between a power rail and a signal line? Step 8: Allow to dry. Is it suspicious or odd to stand by the gate of a GA airport watching the planes? Water-resistant gypsum board, or green board, was used in the past as a tile backer but is no longer recommended, mainly because better products are available. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. More waste, yes, but I think you have to have a LOT of practice to hang those huge sheets like mongo does. Cement board is the most common and widely-known backer board. Cement boards are typically capable of withstanding larger amounts of water, while a Schlter system is designed to hold up well only in dry conditions. Seems like I've been using the full measure of water the bag calls for, plus about 10%.-50 lbs of thinset at a time is too much for an amatuer. x 5-ft. and 3 x 5-ft. sheets of cement board are sized for efficient use around bathtubs and showers. But you might be struggling to figure out what kind of paint to use on garage walls. With Kerdi Board you get to enjoy an effective product that is lightweight, easy to cut, waterproof, and leaves behind no dust! Yes, Kerdi membrane can be installed over plywood. Take care to cut the KERDI membrane to the appropriate size and apply it to the wall, ensuring that it is properly adhered and that the edges are sealed with KERDI sealant. And we are using a drippy mixture, it slides off the trowel. Firstly, it is important to ensure the wall is adequately prepared and that it is smooth, flat and free of defects. link to How To Organize A Bathroom Closet. In general, modified thin-set mortar is not recommended to set ceramic and stone tile, including large format tiles, over the KERDI membrane. The grid lines on the surface are incredibly helpful for installation and making neat cuts. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. rev2023.3.3.43278. If you choose to use Aquadefense as a shower pan liner, be sure to continue it up the walls at least 6", tying into your waterproofing on the walls. But there are downsides. This allows the cement to properly hydrate, resulting in a strong, dense bond coat. If there is no blocking behind the seam, i would just tape prior to installing the membrane, the thinset will fill the seam and embed the mesh. One of the major benefits of opting for Kerdi Board over cement board is the ease of installation. Your email address will not be published. First, you would waterproof with your favorite liquid waterproofing membrane of . Kerdi Board is expensive, but I can justify it because it saves time, and it's a joy to use. Now there's nothing particularly wrong with fiber-cementit's just not my first choice. A lot of folks like using cement board but it's heavy and requires a waterproofing membrane over it. DensShield is one common brand. Schluter says that the Kerdi membrane and tile can be installed over standard gypsum wall board without any problems. @JimmyFix-it - hardiboard is not really porous unless it is completely saturated. Modified thinset adhesive is a premixed product that contains latex or acrylic components which make it quite a bit more flexible than regular thinset adhesive and therefore better suited to some applications. Kerdi board is a kind of waterproofer because these kinds of boards are made of XPS foam. The thin-set mortar should be mixed to a fairly dry consistency and then spread on the surface with a 1/4 inch square notch trowel. For all the substrates listed in this Handbook (e.g., gypsum board, cement backerboard, etc. However, the answer you provided above suggests that the OP could omit a waterproof membrane, that I. I guess that why it was so frustrating that cement board is just sooo thirsty. If cement board had been used, most likely the damage would have been much less that what I have to deal with now. Why do small African island nations perform better than African continental nations, considering democracy and human development? Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. Will be doing a bathroom gut and will be laying durock cement board over plywood sub floor. I usually use Durock. The perfect fold is tricky and many of my first steam showers where built without the sealed slip joint. Hardie board is a cement-based siding product that is water-resistant, but not waterproof. Additionally, seal the space around any pipes and fixtures that can be found in the shower. Being a Los Angeles resident, Jessica spends a lot of her time looking for her next DIY project and sharing her love for home design. Thanks to all for the feedback. To waterproof Hardie board, you should choose a quality sealer that is designed for use on cement-based sidings. Once you have selected the right sealer, follow the manufacturers instructions and apply a generous, even coat over the entire surface of the Hardie board. Kerdi Membrane is a product of Schluter systems. For the floor I make a dry mix mud base and then the Kerdi membrane. Project Type: Tile / Category: Bathroom. The kerdi membrane will probably do the same, and its regularly installed over drywall which is probably less stable. Then you can apply a thin layer of KERDI-FIX to the board, the membrane over top . To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. Creative, C'mon over for a beer! If you want to go to the extra effort of putting the membrane over drywall, there is no need to use greenboard. #2. Waterproofing is an important aspect of any bathroom or wet-area installation. you should still water proof with a liquid membrane product like RedGuard. Kerdi membrane is a waterproofing material that is designed to be used in wet areas such as bathrooms and showers before tiles are installed. The Kerdi membrane should be applied with the standard procedure, using a hogg brush or a notched trowel to spread the thin-set mortar and a roller to ensure appropriate adhesion. It is important to overlap the edge of the membrane so that it covers slightly more than half of the drywall behind it. When applying Kerdi membrane to cement board, the edges and seams of the membrane must be lapped, meaning that each layer should overlap the portion underneath it by a minimum of two inches. To get the most protection from the cement board, it should be installed in a way that ensures it is waterproof, in addition to being secured properly with the right adhesive and screws. x 60 in. All shower/tub areas should have concrete board (I prefer hardiboard). For indoor projects and gypsum board, thinset with a latex acrylic modifier is ideal. Thanks Paul! There is a product called Kerdiboard you might want to look into. It looks like you have Kerdi installed on the floor and not Kerdi Board. Just wondering how effective is the tile on kerdi membrane vs the traditional cement backboard where tiles are glued directly to the drywall? Properly waterproofed Hardie board should last for many years. Do the prefab Schluter niches like the double unit 12 by 28shelf have a built in pitch to the bottom and middle shelves to drainoff water as shown in niche that you built in that thread? I appreciate your help and your quick response. Cut the shower tray to size. It is easier to cut than cement board, it is mold resistant, and it has a built-in moisture barrier. The shower is ready for tile. Foam-core tile backing board has two big advantages over other backer boards. Installation instructions vary depending on the type of Kerdi membrane being used, but typically the membrane is applied directly to a clean, dry plywood surface that is free from dust, dirt, and other debris. I posted a plea for help and Mongo and Bill both gave me good advice. When applying the primer, make sure to cover all surfaces thoroughly, as these will be completely covered by the KERDI membrane. The difference between the phonemes /p/ and /b/ in Japanese. Je peux rejeter les cookies non essentiels en cliquant sur Grer mes prfrences . link to What Kind Of Paint For Garage Walls? Personnaliser mon exprience l'aide de cookies, Landscape Architects & Landscape Designers, Outdoor Lighting & Audio/Visual Specialists, epoxy or marine paint over greenboard for my shower walls (not tile), Need advice on bathroom remodel - using hardiebacker boards, HELP! x 96 in. Cement board is particularly vulnerable to water damage, so waterproofing can help protect it and help it last longer. Cut the Kerdi membrane to size using a utility knife or scissors. #1 - Backer board has nothing to do with HD or any other big box. What to use to flatten and prep wall before installing Schluter Kerdi membrane for tiling? When cleaning thinset off of Schluter membranes, the manufacturer recommends using a wet sponge and taking care to avoid any scoring or inconsistencies on the surface of the membrane. Underlayment is designed to smooth out uneven areas of the subfloor and form a rigid layer that prevents the flooring from bending. All it takes is the right preparation. Tile Shower SurroundCement Backerboard Location? Ceramic and porcelain tile, more than almost any other surface material, need a stable . 3. We are no longer supporting IE (Internet Explorer) as we strive to provide site experiences for browsers that support new web standards and security practices. She grew up surrounded by constant home improvement projects and owes most of what she knows to helping her dad renovate her childhood home. We also found that using a heavy rolling pin worked wonders for really setting the Kerdi. Using cement board and a sheet membrane . My understanding is that Schluter-Kerdi, being a sheet topical membrane, recommends just going with regular drywall instead of cement board but you can certainly use cement board as the substrate. Needed to interject a little "amateur humor. Make sure the floor is level in the shower. I'm guessing he put a 2x6 across for the curb? KERDI was developed as a waterproofing membrane to be used in . Hardi is definitely a "thirsty" substrate but will work, even without a primer of RedGard. While cement board may be the most common and widely-known tile substrate, Kerdi Board is giving it a run for its money. Once youre sure that the membrane is completely dry, you can then move forward with tiling. is that because water doesn't really hit that area?" - Lisa Jasper That's pushing it but should be fine. Rolling pin, good, now I can throw away my magnesium float.LOLCasey. We were using a 3/16 x 5/32 trowel, probably to small. What precautions should I take installing tile on a backerboard in an area surrounded by cement? The 1/4-inch-thick board is typically used on floors and countertops. After today's tutorial, you'll gain the confidence to transform your old bathroom into a new space. Is this overkill? Installation is simple- just trowel a layer of thin-set adhesive on the floor and embed the mat in it, then fill the cavities with thin-set. This will ensure a strong bond between the KERDI membrane and the substrate. Do new devs get fired if they can't solve a certain bug? What to use to flatten and prep wall before installing Schluter Kerdi membrane for tiling? The curb doesn't have to be any wider than a 2x4. You peeled it off? If you can avoid that, the demo would be ~easy enough to maybe have some friends who'd work for beer come over and help you knock it out. The drywall's back side fails, and it's just as bad or worse than it was on the tile side. Seams and joints should also be waterproofed and caulked to prevent water from seeping through. We tried soaking the cement board and applying the kerdi in small sections. Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. Kerdi 3 ft. 3 in. It's a lightweight polystyrene board faced with Kerdi that comes in various thicknesses that you can use in place of drywall or cement board. Installing cement board involves placing the boards atop a layer of thinset adhesive, a process known as bedding. Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. Sloped Shower Tray KST1220/1525 - The Home Depot. How can I find out which sectors are used by files on NTFS? I used this to seal a 3 1/2 by 6 1/2 foot shower with 7 foot walls.